Who else can't wait for Schiavo to die?

[Yeyende]

She needs to kick the bucket already. Im just sick of hearing about it. I got up this afternoon, and every news station was talking about it. This "feeding tube has been removed/re-inserted" crap is getting really old. They need to make up their damned minds already.

[Froberg]

Leave it in.

[Ozafy]

Remove it.

She's a vegstable, she's better of dead, and i believe her husband.

He has nothing to gain by her death, yet keeps persuing it, imho that means he loves her, and is desperatly trying to grant her her wish.

And the entire shit of the governement mixing with justice makes me want to puke.

Stupid American governement. Although today i saw the first smart republican ever on tv :o

[Yeyende]

Stupid American governement. Although today i saw the first smart republican ever on tv :o

Do explain...

[NukeTheEmus]

This woman is a vegetable. Over 20 US Courts have decided that this woman is a vegetable, and that her wish was to die in that state.

The problem is fundamentalist Christianity here in the States. For whatever reason these people are against the right to die. I mean, these people are all about heaven but they get pissed whenever anybody tries to get there.

On another note, there is no American media. Apparently reporting on Iraq, and our "War on Terrorism" accurately takes a back seat to Michael Jackson, Some Vegetable, and Martha Stewart.

My biggest fear is that I'm going to wake up one day, and while mass media was reporting on the latest kid Michael Jackson fucked, they slide through a bill that makes us slaves to our corporate overlords. Oh right, they already did that with the bankruptcy bill.

[Ozafy]

It's completely retarded that the governement (well political part) is interfering with Justice, it took humans over 2000 years to evolve away from that and to get a complete seperation of State and Law, now in the us they decide it's ok.

But one smart republican said, rightfully, that it's just plain wrong to vote laws under pressure of people, which i find a very smart statement (and she used better wording then me aswell :p)

[Thet'iko Nexaris]

Remove the tube. Terri's been dead for 15 years. There's no good reason to keep the body alive.

[Yeyende]

Remove the tube. Terri's been dead for 15 years. There's no good reason to keep the body alive.

*ahem* (http://www.whitehouse.org/news/2005/031905.asp)

[System Shock]

I vote "who cares" but on a more specific note pull it out she ain't gettin any better.

[Augustus]

First of all: I think it's a real delicate matter. Imagine how hard it would be to have to make such a decision... I'm glad i wasn't one of those 20 (well probably alot more) judges!

I (as a lawstudent) try to imagine how her husband can prove that she wanted to die, rather then be a vegetable. I think such a thing is very hard to prove, however he has done it! Hats of for that!

(As a note to Ozafy: Offcourse he has something to gain... Imagine how hard it would be if you can't say goodbye to your husband/wife because their parents keep her alive with that machine.)

However, courts have decided...
Now that mofo Bush wants to pass a bill? What the heck is he thinking? For a lawstudent that's a no-go-area (for reasons stated above).
As a human, i just think about the emotions... Courts settled it (well not totally), then he gave the loosing party new hope. It's inhumane from him to interfere in this proces that has been going on for ages now!

Now, i agree, i might think different about this if i wasn't a nonbeliever... I think i would also fight till the end if i was in the shoes of the parents and a true christian... However, this proces has been way too long... A fight for 15 years? How can that even happen? Don't the legislaters in the US see how delicate such a request is? That you can't keep those people in uncertainty about the outcome for so long? Even if i was a true christian, i still would see the inhumanity of that... Shame that robot Bush can't and wants to expand this uncertainty even longer...

[Ozafy]

(As a note to Ozafy: Offcourse he has something to gain... Imagine how hard it would be if you can't say goodbye to your husband/wife because their parents keep her alive with that machine.)



That kind of was my entire point :s

[Augustus]

then why the hell did you say you thought he had nothing to gain?
Offcourse he could've lied about his wife's wish to die instead living in such a state, just for his own emotional state of mind...
but as i said, such a thing will be very hard to prove...
but he did it succesfully to several judges!

[Ozafy]

then why the hell did you say you thought he had nothing to gain?

You do get the meaning of imho right?


He has nothing to gain by her death, yet keeps persuing it, imho that means he loves her, and is desperatly trying to grant her her wish.

maw: Hij kan niets uit haar dood halen, maar blijft het toch proberen, volgens mij betekend dat dat hij haar graag ziet, en probeert hij dus gewoon haar wens te vervullen.
==

Offcourse he has something to gain... Imagine how hard it would be if you can't say goodbye to your husband/wife because their parents keep her alive with that machine.

[Augustus]

maw: Hij kan niets uit haar dood halen, maar blijft het toch proberen, volgens mij betekend dat dat hij haar graag ziet, en probeert hij dus gewoon haar wens te vervullen.


Offcourse he can keep trying because he loves her and wants to forfill her last wish...
I think i wasn't quite clear about it...
I'll give you an example:
Whenever a person is lost in most cases the relatives (after a couple of years) rather wanna know that he/she is death then keep hoping that (s)he still lives. Because that hope will become such a burden! so a "deathdeclaration" is just selfish for them (well also for money, but emotionaly it also calms them).
In comacases that could be the same. The living relatives can't handle the burden anymore between hope and despair, whether (s)he'll always be a vegetable or not. And for their personal emotional wellfare they'd like him/her to die.

That could be the gain the husband has...
However, i don't think that's the case, for reasons stated previously!

[Ozafy]

Ah, i never looked at it that way. Indeed an interesting thought, although i don't think it's the case either.

Thx for clearing it up :wink:

[Kensomniac]

meh, I'm sort of indifferent to it all.. I read somewhere that she has the mental capabilities of a 9 month old... sure, it's not an adults level, but it's still some level of mental function.

I'd say keep her alive.

[Kensomniac]

I haven't seen anyone doing away with the McNuggets.

Except me.

When I eat them.


Perhaps the answer is cannibalism.

[Froberg]

Perhabs the answer is masturbation.

[Kensomniac]

If that's the answer.. then perhaps I have been asking the right questions.

[Mumbles]

Im getting fed up of the whole thing being on the news and in the papers.

I vote for the , its almost 1/2 the way around the world for somepeople who cares

[Kensomniac]

aye, it has been getting huge coverage...

I dunno.. I'm getting more and more torn on the decision... I know how it is to sit by and watch someone close to you waste away.. you hold on to any small hope that while they won't get better, at least they're happy, even if in a small way..

*shrug* what happens will happen, and we can't change that.

[Kensomniac]

aye, that's why I'm torn about it all.. sure there's no her per se, but the family still see's it as her... it's complicated, and I'm changing my opinion to letting her die... though it would be nice if there was a faster way than starving.

[Yeyende]

though it would be nice if there was a faster way than starving.

There is, but the conservatives dont like that either. Idiots, all of them.

[Augustus]

LOL, now the pope is kinda doing the same...
He doesn't want to go to the hospital, although he's almost dead...
If he went to the hospital they would keep him alive a little longer, but he knows that won't be pretty...

How hypocrite can the church be?

*Hopes the pope survives for another month and starts this revolutin in the church*

[space]

I was for #3 stupid news media.

[System Shock]

[quote="Augustus"]LOL, now the pope is kinda doing the same...
quote]

Yeah and the Cardinals are gathering like crows.

[Ozafy]

I want that black one Tutu, that guy fucking pwns, and has some very liberal views on how the church should change.

TUTU FOR POPE!

[Augustus]

I don't know any cardinal (nor their political ideas)...
However, i do know that this pope has elected many conservative cardinals...
Since the cardinals are the ones voting, i can't see a liberal becoming the pope...

I hate to say this, but i think Rome will keep sending these conservative ideas (like their viewpoint on abortion, euthanasia etc. etc.) to the Catholic world...
And they wonder why they lose so many believers in the western world? :o

[Ozafy]

yeah, that and he's black, which doesn't really play in his advantage :/

to bad though, i think he'd make a great pope, he's one of the few high ranked catholics that has some views that might actually do the world some good.

But i doubt it will be him.

[Yeyende]

The Catholic Church full of conservatives. Imagine that. :rolleyes:

It doesn't really matter who the new Pope is anyways. At this point in history, the Pope is just a figurehead. He has no real power.

[Augustus]

Well, in my opinion the pope has no real power anymore, because he lost so many believers in the western world. Back in the times that the churches in Europe were full he had a lot of power.
So, to regain that power, they should lose their conservative ideas and (especially) don't fight popular scientific theories (like the origin of earth, mankind etc etc).
So the liberal black pope could become a real power...
However, he would have a very hard time (and i wouldn't want to be in his shoes)

[NukeTheEmus]

Yeah... that black cardinal that's a contender is one of the most conservative voices in the Church. Not liberal at all. Even if he was, he'd be assassinated like John Paul I. Anyway, screw the Catholic Church. They're one of the most regressive forces in the world. They promote the spread of AIDS in Africa with their views on birth control.

[Ozafy]

um I must say i disagree completely.

First off, the Pope does have alot of power, remember that 1/6 people is catholic, and therefore do take the word of the pope highly.

Secondly, that black cardinal openly said the pope was an idiot for going against birth control, I do think that's kind of a liberal pov for a cardinal.

[Yeyende]

um I must say i disagree completely.

First off, the Pope does have alot of power, remember that 1/6 people is catholic, and therefore do take the word of the pope highly.


He doesnt have any real power. Only power that people let him have over them.



Secondly, that black cardinal openly said the pope was an idiot for going against birth control, I do think that's kind of a liberal pov for a cardinal.

Thats not liberal. Thats logical. Theres a difference.

[NukeTheEmus]

um I must say i disagree completely.

First off, the Pope does have alot of power, remember that 1/6 people is catholic, and therefore do take the word of the pope highly.

Secondly, that black cardinal openly said the pope was an idiot for going against birth control, I do think that's kind of a liberal pov for a cardinal.

If the litmus test for a liberal cardinal is support for birth control then jeebus save us all, and I'm pretty sure it's political expediency anyway. Watching your continent lose millions of it's youth due to an AIDS epidemic would probably make even American religious fundamentalists rethink that whole birth control thing. It wouldn't exactly be a popular position to reaffirm the Church's position.

[Ozafy]

If the litmus test for a liberal cardinal is support for birth control then jeebus save us all, and I'm pretty sure it's political expediency anyway. Watching your continent lose millions of it's youth due to an AIDS epidemic would probably make even American religious fundamentalists rethink that whole birth control thing. It wouldn't exactly be a popular position to reaffirm the Church's position.

well, what can you compare him with? only the other cardinals, then he looks pretty liberal to me (the birth control is just one of the things aswell, he's done/said some other stuff besides that), for a christian he's damn liberal.



He doesnt have any real power. Only power that people let him have over them.

true, he can't fire nukes :rolleyes:

[Augustus]

He doesnt have any real power. Only power that people let him have over them.

Isn't that the case for every government in the world? Power always comes from the people!


Thats not liberal. Thats logical. Theres a difference.

First of all, for some people that's (apperently) not logical!
Secondary; it's liberal for the church...